Cheaters eh? :D

as a keen and at times freelance web designer/programmer i was interested and read the post…

the post made me aware of the contetest and the person was honest saying a friends work (Lorelei) is up for being voted on…

i was not told to specifically vote for her work and the link provided was for the main page and not a direct vote…

apon looking at the designs i did vote for Modern Magic as the “design” i felt was the best…

now having been part of both the design and programming parts of the web world i feel there have been grave mis-judgements to the works in hand

as the contest title says… this is a “Design” contest… my interpritation is then that i am judging the looks and feel of the blogs

i have worked freelance at over 90 different companies many of which being blue chip each have had a design department and web department.

the functionality and the coding of these sites is not in question, as like the companies i have visted and worked for the design teams knowledge of constructing a website/blog/cms is usually very basic if at all exsistant as its not part of or required for there job…

anyways im now rambling on i apologise! lol

if cheating has and most likely taking place (and sed suggestions regarding links to direct voting and proxys being used is all very easy also its easy to use anonymous website forwarding thus different/fake ips given) is very sad and should inherit a ban/disqualification!

i apologise for my lack of grammer, poor punctuation, most probably shorthand/txt talk and spelling mistake but im in a rush although felt i had to comment!

thanks for reading.. and good luck to all entries!

“Hello Everyone,

I though that you will choose a winner, now everyone will have votes from people they have told it, from forums, etc. It’s not objective and will win not the best design.

mikozv”

I wasn’t suggesting here it will not be fair, but it is not objective, I have made those posts on forums before because I wanted to make some campaigns as well as was it before in first rounds.
NOT complaining about the others do it also and it would be unfair…

It was only note to this contest not complain, if I would complain about it than I would like maybe before not to make campaigns. The rules was so that will win not the best design but the one who will gain more votes. I knew it so I decided to post this, already I knew that nothing will change… But in last time I saw many contests on the web that are made in this way so it is not unfair, but not objective to the best design. If would decide some certain people from LP with people doing in this but not from dp or some forum, some graphic designers ( panel I mean ) it would be more objective, and maybe would win theme with the fewer votes now.

And this part I was regarding to : “when he is suggesting if i will win — it will be unfair.”
I have never wrote that so therefore I was writting you it wasn’t true. Nothing else…

And if you are signing me as a paranoic, so who is attacking who? And the previous posts as well…
But I have nothing against you, only that you shouldn’t write what is not true… I dont like it and my personality is that I defend than myself from other attacks not only from you. Maybe you have not understand my post very well, so if it is so, big apologize to you. Than all those comments are a big misunderstandig and I am sorry Lorelei for it if I injured you.

Thats all, I will accord with you that we have talk here about it too much and it is unwise to talk about it more as well as about another themes here… I hope noone will blame me for something again so I wouldn’t have to defend myself, so I would like to write here only about some good things… :)

Btw, for the 3rd time: the “funny” part, just like my one and only initial comment targeted at YOU personally, refer to the fact that you first asked for votes everywhere, then got to lead, and THEN complained that others will do the same, suggesting that it won’t be fair. Yes, I find it funny; we all asked for votes but somehow managed to live with the fact that others did the same. It’s like to come and participate in a sport competition yet complain that your competitor is better trained… Anyway, didn’t we mill over this subject enough by now..?

If LP didn’t gain enough publicity with this contest, they sure got plenty of unique written content here :P

I would like to say to everyone that all Michal Uhrin’s votes are clear. They come from one site and one forum. I call Lunarpages to be honest and investigate all votes and show results to everyone! I just can assure everyone that Michal Uhrin is honest person all his votes are clear.

Thank you for your time!

I want to add something to my last response as well, where YOU brought the personal factor in…

**checks first if I indeed are logged in as Captain now and not as Lorelei or any other**

What does a personal relation with a contender has to do with the comments which are made?
Everyone knows it, a stranger to someone would not even bother to go into it, but just say: ok, that theme won, allthough i gave my vote to another.

If I know Lorelei personally, or just from online, or even if she was my girlfriend or wife, it does not make sense why that should be an issue.
But for sure, if I wouldnt have told you, I bet a link to some threads in Lorelei’s forum would have been brought up, because you are a member there to, wow…the “truth” revealed, shocking news: Captain knows Lorelei.
Happy it got revealed now?
What does it say? who does it a favour? What was your purpose for asking me that?

Oh, and I am not Lorelei’s manager, because if I was for sure she would have known as soon as i advertized for her on any other site, may it be high or low traffic, and not having to find out “later” ;)

Friends help friends when they THINK unjustice is done, now you are the “winner” and you dont need defense but wanna bet when Lorelei or someone else would have such a vote-increase pattern in the last hours of the battle (in OUR europen time that is) YOUR friends would have complaint also? Even when they dont have “proof” just like no-one has here, but simply by stating their findings and raising a SUSPICION.

ps. you calculated with 20k visitors from that soccer, while in fact it was 14759, I could do some math-calculation now and compare it with ctr from any other sites and say something about it, but lets not.

Whats next? Saying that Lorelei’s “team” or community,as you call it,has been doing some major vote-increase on your theme to get you disqualified?
In case you do, read first the previous comments I gave the solution already for in case that happend and on what Lunar should do with that.

Been watching the movie “conspiracy theory” lately, or investigated the “complot” against JFK?

PS. Lunar, I know I maybe got a bit personal too with this comment, and will have no problems with it when you decide to remove it.
But when a person asks me a personal question, I think I can reply in a personal way as well and i thought/hope have that right
It might be wisefull as well, to close the auto-approving commenting on this topic, and only manual approve comments, because I am stil behaving now…..lol

We brought up SUSPICIONS, nowhere did i say that you have CHEATED.
You are sure you have won fair, we arent, so why are you pushing yourself to look like a victim now?

Second, I didnt say that I ve got better theme than you, noone knows, maybe you like more your theme another like more my theme… Its true that I havent here my best design, Daisy Dream I have made almost 1 year ago :) so for me are my positive comments in forums very valuable because this theme is one of my first WP themes and generally start in graphic design.

I am very thankful to LP that they have chosen one of my themes thats naturally ;)

Lorelei, nothing seemed to me abnormal and fake… Just read that I was only defending against you with posts from others ;)

I am not surprised that you complain about my vote increasment, that is normal… But why all those comments around it ? Certainly you are disappointed. And now complaining on everything what is possible…So please dont write things like “I don’t think I “lost” because…”, etc…

Lorelei if I will win that money I would give you a half because I like your theme more than mine, but you were saying lies so now If I will win I will share with my friends certainly… I am not that man who you think maybe I am ;) only therefore that I gained a lot of votes…( or your contender think )

And the banners yes, you have mentioned that I used only 1 banner, but if you looked before on wpmix(dot)com or wptemplates(dot)org you will see them there as well;) but this all is woth of my energy because if you Lorelei read all comments , you would read there these things…
So I dont contradict myself, please dont blame me, thanks.
And many other sources for voting, they have already been mentioned.(like forums,friends,family,etc.)
I have noticed that for your theme also weren’t votes raising more than 4,5 hours but some days ago… So I wasnt here in that time I didnt see it in my theme… But I trust you , yes it can be true that for 4,5 hours I gained no votes. But why are you writing this? Maybe almost americans gave me votes and at that time exactly all americans were sleeping ;) Who knows…

Again about votes: I have written that let the LP staff investigate so how could I give you some confirment when I dont own this server? I dont understand what you exactly want from me… Maybe to admit that I have cheated… But I haven’t, maybe some of my contenders as you write, but I don’t think so… If they were cheating, than not in too many votes I think ;) and they will delete cheated votes and after than will be the winner announced.

And in a situation when everybody is blaming you as a cheater, and writing you that it wasnt correct and you know it was correct (almost from my side, and football site because he’s my good friend and I trust him), wouldnt you be defending yourself as well?

Maybe you didnt blame me as a cheater but when I read your post is looks like it… But your contenders did…

wow I didnt know that you own this site :O , but it can be real when someone read all those posts ;)

Ok I think I said everything, now only to admit it :))))

So first of all, I don’t think I “lost” because: A. I will probably get the 2nd prize and it’s also very honorable. B. I got unbelievable support from people allover the world helping and encouraging me, leaving positive feedback and commenting on my designs and that means more to me than cash. C. Unfortunately, I didn’t lose to a “better theme” so it won’t shake my confidence. ;)

Not to mention that regardless the outcome, this contest gave my designs an enormous exposure and weather I will get ANY prize or not, I am really grateful to LP for this opportunity. And you should be too.

I remember over a week ago, when Modern Magic went from 175 to 240 in 5 hours (and that was the same day after it went up on Digg.com!) – you directly brought this issue up, because 11 votes per hour seemed abnormal and fake to you. So why are you surprised that to me, and many others, 200 votes per hour seemed like an atypical blast?

And where, if I may ask, “Lorelei lied in her thread”? Or are you going to say that I asked for votes in my own forum, and that is oh so unethical, what if others did it too? How unfair, Michal eh. Good thing you moaned about it right from the start.

And again, you contradict yourself. You said you had banners on “too” many sources which explains the voting fever, however, only on one (if I understood correct – football site) it was removed after a few hours, so how come ALL votes for your theme stopped? That would be a real conspiracy if people from all the other multiple sources would stop voting for you for over 4,5 hours after seeing you reached exactly 200 above me? It doesn’t make sense that visitors were casting a vote every few seconds and then all of a sudden discontinued.

If you know for sure that all your votes are 100% real (although I think none of the contenders can’t give that guarantee, we all have supporters who can give us an unwanted “favour”), why do you feel attacked upon every post? You don’t have to defend yourself Michal, LP said they will investigate, and logs are better witnesses than words so I am sure you can remain calm. Besides, you keep reading wrong into my words. I DIDN’T say you cheat, how can I say that? Based on what? …all I said was: you tried to come up with an *explanation* of your votes’ storm and I *personally* don’t think it clarifies the votes’ pattern. I could be wrong, I am not God almighty.

Oh and, well spotted btw. Captain, Lorelei, Kalina, Soldier, Dan, Ben, Rescuer, Mike, Master are all my aliases. I just tend to post from different nicks sometimes. In fact, this is my blog and contest, so I’m more inclined to give the prize to myself and not to you. Hope that clears it all.

Now, I will appreciate if the flood of insults in my address will stop, I don’t think I gave you a reason for that.

As you can see in one of my previous post, you will mostlikly read that i know that Lorelei has a forum, and I am a member there.
Don think its hard to conclude from my posts, that I “know” her, everyone can see that.

Why the little winks behind your question?dont you think I would have been “caught” by Lunar because our IP-adresses match and I was Lorelei herself?

Look, Michal, I know you think I am attacking you, I am just stating every single time what I have seen happening.
If any other theme would have had the same, lets say coming from 4th place going to 1st, and thus you ending as 2nd as Lorelei as 3rd I would have done the same thing.
In fact that would have meaned with what I seen happening would maybe have helped you also.

Unless the voting system here on LP was so slack it relied on a $_GET post to allow a vote to be given and no validity on the referring site that this site is at fault for have a system open to abuse. But I doubt it would. They could also tell from there access logs where votes had been counted from. The votes would also have the IP of the referring server as the user would not see the voting system.

But as this is built on the WP platform there would have to be a certain amount of error checking before a vote would be counted (maybe LP could provide the name of the plugin they have used to have the voting system).

If people have not voted yet a vote for them has been counted, then they need to step up and make themselves known and this is not good practice. The only way to do this is to send a user from a duplicated form to this site, which again can be tracked from the server access logs and any such votes could be nulled out.

As LP is looking into the vote count, I am sure they will be rooting through the access logs as well to see what has been going on overtime.
—————-
On a side note to common voting and posting of “vote for me” this shouldnt really be allowed as it will always be the winner of who has more friends or who can advertise on the most sites to get the votes they want, so the “crapest” design could win in theory and not the one that “should” win.

I hate it when people tend to comment just to point fingers and saying x,y,z is doing bad practise without ANY proof. This is just speculation and NOT proof.

They did, and a lot of people seen that, at 751 your incoming votes stopped for a few hours.
I hope Lunar will take a extra good look what happend 3 hours before you reached that ammount until a few hours after you reached that ammount, they will see also that you didnt gain any votes over that time

What I also dont understand is why in your first defense after their were several complaints made here, you didnt directly say about your friends site and came with that a few comments later, you just said no cheating, no proxies, if I had to defend myself when I am falsly (?) blamed I would directly tell it all and especially not forget to mention a huge traffic site I had a banner on.

On that evening your voting looked like a bucket of water, you fill it and turn it around, all water falls out, and not a single drop afterwards.
Natural is, turn the bucket around, water falls out and it will stay dripping drops for some time to come.
Also remember that during the day you got at least 3-4 votes each hour mostlikli form other sites/forums where it was promoted, after 751 nothing anymore, can be because of the threads on several forums dropped from view, but the main issue remains big boost of votes, and it just stopped as if the poll was closed, there was no flow.

It is well known that in the final hours of every single open voting contest, someone will try and pull a trick and hope it doesnt get noticed.
Because which fool would actually sit behind a computer and watch how the final stages of a voting contest evolve, well….sometimes I am one of them.

Again Lunar, please have a good look at votes received from about 3-4 hours the 751 count was reached, until 3-4 hours after, and notice the oddness in the situation comparing it with the whole voting-cycle.

Hello Everyone,

I though that you will choose a winner, now everyone will have votes from people they have told it, from forums, etc. It’s not objective and will win not the best design.

mikozv

Yes, in case your theme will win then for sure ‘not the best design’ will win lol

It doesnt matter what kind of site it is, if someone want to vote (support me, not other themes) he will click on it and vote for my theme. Maybe they clicked on your theme as well thats because you gained more than 100 votes in that day ;) Other themes had not many votes so very few votes were going to them.(it was only “fight” between your and my theme).

But all the votes that I had in exactly that day I had from (too) many sources. You write it as I had all votes from 1 site…

And the votes havent suddenly stopped after advertisement was removed. I gained votes after than as well as you. I think noone saw it because everyone was surprised of my inceasement of votes…
This is I think reasonable explanation.

And if you dont believe me, I can make it 2nd time , everyone can look on that site and again on increasing number of votes… ;) But let the LP team to investigate this.

And Lorelei, on that football site was 15-20k UNIQUE visitors/day so many much page views, just count how many unique visits in that 4 or how many hours, 4 hours make 5k unique visits + votes from another sites which makes also many votes and as I said before vote wasnt only from that site.
Youre right if I had it on the biggest WordPress site I would definetely gain maybe 1000 votes in that few hours… But this was a football related site so I gained not so much votes.

Anyway , Lorelei , why are you still looking for some reason? I know why… I would maybe do it also with my friends if I was in another position.

Dan I can say you that everyone likes something else. Not everyone think that the Modern Magic is the best, not everyone think that Daisy Dream is the best.

Dan please at first read all the comments, how can you say again I’m a cheater? Than I can blame Lorelei as a cheater aas well ;) think about it ( more than 100 votes for lorelei in single day and more than 300 in a few weeks )
btw my entry didnt started to fall back as you said. I dont know where you saw it but everytime I was in the lead or Lorelei ( both with max.20 votes lead ).
Why should LP staff do it as you said? Because you dont like my theme I know… Never mind at the start again it was stated that maybe not the best design will win, and now this is here.

Darin, maybe some people from that football site voted for another themes ( for lorelei’s, only because there was a competition between us , if will someone vote for another theme he will be maybe stupid ).

Darin you’ve got various people, someone is glad to support and someone is not. Maybe footbal fans like to support my theme more than Lorelei’s because its more oriented on something what has with football in common than ModernMagic…

Darin, that I think was in this case not possible to vote direct for my theme from banner.

I wouldn’t make any posts here anymore, because as I said before it is a waste of time… Let the LP staff investigate all votes. ;)

There is such a term as “relevant traffic” and “irrelevant traffic” — and visitors from soccer/freebies site to wordpress oriented site is definitely irrelevant traffic. While an advert for free soccer wallpapers COULD work on a wp themes page, because that leads from narrow webmasters niche to wide entertainment / freebies niche (and entertainment niches cover a bigger percentage of online surfers), when it’s the other way around, it’s quite surprising. If you are interested in downloading free football wallpapers, how fat is the chance you are also interested in web design >> blogging, wordpress in particular? So potential % of visitors from so to speak “irrelevant” site can’t possibly be huge unless they all suffer from unhealthy curiosity. (Again, Adsense will get clicks, because it displays relevant-to-the-content ads.)

But we are assuming one *did* click on the wp banner, and went to the Lunar Pages blog. Okay, so you are there. You need to scroll down about 5 pages until you see the poll and there are pictures and written content on the way that can distract. You might not even know where the poll is and close the tab. But you are patient and did search for the poll. By the time you located it, do you remember who the banner ordered you to vote for..? And if you do remember, but liked someone else’s design, you still completely disregard your own will..?

Well… evidently 350 people last night followed exactly this path. And that means (dividing the traffic by the hours ), every 7th visitor came here to *vote* for only one theme.

People might be “loyal” in forums but Like Darin say, why would they vote for someone following an advert just because they were told? It could be a mere spam after all, they cannot know it.

I am not saying it couldn’t potentially bring votes, of course it could, but considering that at some point when I was only 9 votes away, there was a real a shower of them, I think to justify such a percentage of votes you had to advertise on a much higher traffic site, and slightly more relevant to the niche.

Moreover, if you say a lot of people supported you on webmasters boards, those your posts, I guess, were posted earlier and weren’t removed suddenly, so it remains an enigma why after you reached 751 votes (precisely 200 ahead of me) the votes for your theme stopped for more than 4 hours completely.

While many things can have a reasonable explanation, just like others, THIS is what I totally fail to understand.